Interview/Discussion with Italian Women Migrants at Cafe Nova 17/09/09
by Judy Ferguson. September 2009
Read this story in Italian.
The State Member for Light, Tony Piccolo organized for me to interview several Italian women in the Gawler area who had emigrated to Australia in the 1950's and 60's and to get their stories so that they may be preserved for future generations as part of the `Significant Women Project' set up jointly by the Zonta Club and Gawler Council through the auspices of its Library Manager, Helen Hennessy and Library Historian, Anne Richards. These stories are collected in a special archive in the library and also on the Significant Women Project web site.
I am especially grateful to Mary-Lisa Beltrame who acted as interpreter for the interview. These stories would not have been possible without her invaluable expertise and assistance.
Lastly I would like to acknowledge the willingness, honesty and cheerfulness of the ladies [ interviewed. Their good humour and generosity of spirit made it a most rewarding experience for me.
We began by introducing ourselves all round. I explained who I was and what my role would be and then each lady was invited to talk about herself and how she came to be in Australia and Adelaide in particular. I learnt that Italian women do not necessarily give up their maiden name on marriage.
Why Adelaide?
There was a variety of reasons. One lady had come out as a proxy bride, another had migrated with her family at age 12 so had no choice, others came to be with their husband's family members already settled here or who had been prisoners of war during WW2. Many Italian POW's were interned at Sandy Creek and were hired out to local landholders as labourers. In general most Italian migrants had to be sponsored by family members already here.
What difficulties did you face when you first arrived?
Some of them were greatly helped by their husband's family but found life in Australia very different from what they had been used to at home. One lady did not have al I the documents required (e.g. baptismal, birth records) for her to settle here and was threatened with deportation if she did not get them within a certain time.
Another lady arrived in 1961 and was almost immediately put into hospital with an illness but got home after a month. This lady too suffered a terrible car accident when almost full term and lost the baby. This was the second infant she had lost after her arrival here. She was only 23. Most of the women came from small rural villages and found the new language and life style, food and customs difficult to get used to and full very isolated. One, who was very homesick, wished she had had the money to go back straight away.
One remembered seeing magpies for the first time and thinking them strange. She found it very difficult to leave friends and family behind. They settled in Sevenhills near Clare and had come from a town in Italy so felt isolated in Australia. She was 22 at that time.
Another lady, only 12 when she arrived went to school at Angle Vale. She had begun high school in Italy but was put into Year 7 here. She and her sister were the only migrant children in a class of 15 students. She found her school years very traumatic and was the butt of racist and prejudiced comments and behaviour from students there and at 1 High School. She had very little assistance with learning English at school and so was greatly disadvantaged. Sadly her teacher back home in Italy had wanted to adopt her and throughout her childhood in Australia this lady wanted to go back to Italy.
English spelling was especially difficult for her and other migrant children.
What sorts of problems do you still face?
Most of the women missed friends and families back home but they are realistic and pragmatic - they have family here now - children and grandchildren who they love very much.
Some still have great difficulty reading and writing English, especially filling out complex forms, and the stigma attached to this. They are still, on occasion, made to feet stupid.
Some have problems understanding letters in English but with some effort can get the gist. A few were not literate in Italian so becoming literate in English was an enormous hurdle and they had to rely on others to read or write for them which was demeaning.
There were no migrant English classes or support groups 50 years ago and even the Catholic Church did very little for them at that time.
Another lady said she had enough English to generally understand what was being said but still felt unable to reply satisfactorily and fully in English and so still relies on others for this type of support.
One lady said she was simply waiting to go to the cemetery to join her husband.
Others felt that some older Italians who had poor language skills were still humiliated by their lack of independence and were a burden to their families.
Those who still had family in Italy still felt homesick.
What are the things you like about Australia?
All the women acknowledged that having Australian born children and grandchildren made life not only bearable here but mainly enjoyable despite, for some of them, ongoing homesickness.
Some said that Australia had provided space, opportunity for education for their children and well paid work and conditions that their small communities back home couldn't have provided at that time.
They said if people were prepared to work hard when they came to Australia they could do well. Australia had freedom of speech and a good health and education system.
How have your children and/or grandchildren benefited from you coming here? Most felt they were better off for educational and work opportunities and who knew what might have happened to them after the devastation left in Italy after the war. Here if people arc unemployed they believed they got financial assistance. One of the ladies thought they might never know if they were better off now than if they had stayed in Italy. It is possible, she says that she would have been equally well off if she'd stayed. Who knows? There lives may have been completely different if they had stayed in Italy and been part of its post war reconstruction.
What was your childhood like in Italy?
All the women talked about their own deprived childhoods, many of them having only 3 or 4 years at primary school and then going to work in the fields at age 10 or younger. This was the way of life in small country villages where most of them came from. One lady told the story of walking at age 10, some kilometers to a well - a half hour walk - with a donkey to get water. One day the donkey saw a female donkey nearby and she had trouble restraining it and it bit her on the hip! This lady's father had died and there were 10 children in the family. Many such families were very poor after the war and this prompted emigration. Every family grew the food they ate on small holdings and they as children worked in them - something their children and grandchildren have been spared. Some of the crops that were grown were tobacco, grain and vegetables and often a family would have a few goats, sheep and chickens too.
One lady came to Australia as a young child with her family and so faced problems like discrimination and trying to learn in a foreign language.
One lady spent her childhood in a town and had a different experience to village life. She had a happy childhood and as a teenager went dancing and trained as a dressmaker but her family too ate what they grew.
What did you do before you came here?
One woman moved to Switzerland when she was 20 where she worked as a cook in a hospital and met her husband. Another met her husband who was a farmer in her village. Another lady went to Turin at age 17 as a nanny for a rich family. She had been one of 7 children herself. After only 4 years at school she had worked in the fields prior to going to Turin. They had asked for her sister but she took her sister's place. She had an interview and they liked her. She worked there for 10 years and learnt how to cook from the maid who worked there. The family didn't want her to leave but she was restricted on her days off and they watched closely the company she kept as some of the young men might be 'undesirable' and planning to steal from them! She was not allowed out on her own but with an older girl. She sent her photo to her brother in Adelaide and her husband-to-be saw it. She was married by proxy but the family that employed her didn't want her to go telling her hair-raising stories about Australia like --they have ants as big as elephants!!'
Another lady came to Australia at age 22 and came with her sister in law. Many migrant ships came out with young women emigrating to join fiances, husbands or unseen bridegrooms.
What do you enjoy doing now?
Most of the ladies enjoyed some form of handcraft like, knitting, sewing or crochet for family or friends. Many enjoyed watching TV in the evenings and generally preferred ABC2 or SBS (especially 'Global Village') rather than the commercial stations. Many of them enjoy cooking and making their own pasta and bread. It was also obvious that they took great pride and pleasure in their children and grandchildren. One lady who enjoyed TV told me her husband did the cooking! Many of the ladies still enjoyed gardening and one lady has her extended family for tea once a fortnight - the whole 16 of them! One lady is writing her life story and enjoys reading in English.
One lady complained that her husband - who runs a cement business often wakes her up and brings her a cup of tea in bed at 3.30am in the morning!!
What makes for a successful marriage?
One lady had been a proxy bride and another separated from her husband after only 3 days and did not see him again for 18 months. Others were newly weds or joining husbands or fiancés in Australia. All the women had very strong views about the sanctity of marriage and expressed concern at the modem high rate of divorce.
One lady said that a couple need to dance and sing a lot together and told me her husband played the accordion. Her marriage had been very happy despite some tragedies in her life.
They believed their success was due to, the motto quoted by one of them. Her mother had told her "Be careful what you do because it is forever." I think they all agreed with this. They all thought it was too easy now to get divorced. Now that women were able to earn their own living and be more independent it was easier to be separated or divorced. These women took their marriage vows very seriously but they agreed that the stigma that used to be attached to divorce no longer existed.
The lady who had been a proxy bride said she had respected her vows and that it was always possible to resolve differences.
They believed that each partner had their own role in a marriage - the man the breadwinner and the woman the homemaker. This no longer applied in modem society. One lady married a non Italian husband much to the consternation of her parents who were against it but she says they have worked hard to make the marriage a success despite language and cultural differences.
Some thoughts
As an interviewer I was very impressed by the courage, integrity and good humour of these women. They arc a very important part of the fabric of our local community and have contributed greatly to it through the strong moral/Christian ethics they brought to family life and the need to work hard and honestly to live a good life in the service of others. Something we could do with a lot more of in present society. Despite much adversity in their lives and numerous examples of racism and prejudice they are still warm hearted, generous and great fun.
Some of them have been called 'stupid' because of their language difficulties and they say "How well would you do if you had to speak Italian all the time?" Many still think in Italian and so have to translate in their heads before speaking. Not an easy task! I thank them most sincerely for the privilege of meeting and talking with them.
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